The return - how I found Luxor.

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The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by JOJO » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:31 am

I'm back....Arrived back earlier this morning, So how did I find Luxor? In general I had a great time and in true Egyptian style it was all a little contradictory....it's hard to explain but I found there wasn't much of an happy medium. For example the Hassle in some cases was far more aggressive yet on the opposite polar it seemed that many shopkeepers/touts etc... have made a huge effort in asking once and then wishing you a great holiday and thanking you for coming back.
I can understand now the ex-pats totally differing information regarding the situation in Luxor again in my opinion no middle ground . On the west bank I really did feel safe although the Ramla front was a little seedy. I felt and would feel comfortable pottering around the West bank on my own including night time.
There was an unfamiliar atmosphere on the East bank that made me feel uncomfortable and apart from the Corniche and around the temple area I would not feel particularly safe and would not have walked on my own. The lack of Foreigners on the East bank in the evening was hugely apparent.

As well as slight unwelcome changes there were some great positive changes. Firstly it was great to see so many women drivers tootling along the East bank and secondly I found the women so much more 'interactive'. Over the years I found it was only the older women that would smile or acknowledge me however this time most of the younger women I made eye contact with would say hello or give me a smile! :D
Another great positive experience was how busy the temples were and these visitors were mainly Egyptian. At Karnak, Luxor Temple and Medinat Habu the halls were noisy and absolutely bulging with excited Egyptian students, ok you didn't get much quiet time and solace to take in the surroundings but so what it is their monuments not mine so I was 'buzzing' lol.
A big downside was like per-usual the Guardians at Habu, not only bombarding you with hassle but literally closing off every nook and cranny with make shift wooden gates inviting you to enter for a price. At 4.30 pm they started trying to hustle visitors out saying they were closing and it was hustling with a bad attitude. The whole Atmosphere was not good at Habu and that alone is not good for Tourism.

In my eyes neither a negative or positive is the lack of Policeman on the street. For me after recent events it wasn't a problem as I was happy to not see the policemen on every corner and if truth be told personally I would be more trusting of a local Egyptian than a Policeman at the moment.

The most worrying thing I found regarding Luxor at the moment is the lack of parental control in some areas. Yes there as always been children roaming free and sometimes being a nuisance but this time on some occasions it was too too much. On many occasions the children (particuarly young boys) came across as aggressive and for many people I would imagine Intimidating. We did hear " I will ******* kill you" when no money for nothing wasn't handed over.
The most disturbing experience was when a male friend was told badgered by a young boy no older than 12 offering himself basically to him and as you can imagine my fiend found this so upsetting. Luxor needs to start looking after it's children better.

This was MY experience of Luxor and I've said as I have found as I have nothing to gain or loose by doing any different. All in all it was great to be back and Luxor is still a great place to visit. It was great meeting up with everybody and I had many laughs. The cherry on the cake was meeting TonyC - I wanted to bring him home in my suitcase, what a lovely funny guy and such great Company.

Oh as an after thought get yourselves down to the Cafeteria at the end of the bus station, great food and great service for a very very reasonable price, they did ask If we were from L4U and were so chuffed they had attracted the odd foreigner lately by getting a mention on the tinternet!


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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by Lisak » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:44 am

Glad you had a fab time Jojo, regardless of all the bits and bobs that went on.
Wish I could have come with you...next time inshAllah!!! ;)
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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by DJKeefy » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:02 pm

@ JOJO - TAMALEK :lol: we did have a laugh that evening :) Glad you enjoyed most of your stay in Luxor :)
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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by A-Four » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:40 pm

It really is nice to read JoJo's comments here, thanks.

I am afraid though, that as I have said in the past, the central Luxor area from Luxor Temple all the way up to Karnack including the Cornishe and to the east, the Avenue will become a tourist 'park', where if you are Egyptian and do not work in this area, where one would need a license, then you will not enter. For all those of you who do not think this will work, I promise you, long before they developed Sharm el Sheikh, when it was a average tourist town over 20 years ago now, that was the policy there. Many young Egyptians made the journey in hope of finding work there, but were stopped from even entering the town.

To me it seems that in the future, tourists will be discouraged from seeking a two week holiday in Luxor, and perhaps all tourist will visit the sites, then quickly bussed to their cruise boats, which seems to me as being the case now. Remember most of the tourists we use to see in Luxor a few years ago were staying on the boats, most of these now are moored near the bridge.

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:15 pm

The officer who didn't think women should have the right to have drivers' licenses when I got mine must have been transferred to another jurisdiction!

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by lotusflower » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:50 pm

There are lots of egyptian women in Luxor driving cars!

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by HEPZIBAH » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:11 pm

Hi Jojo, welcome back and thanks for sharing your experience of revisiting Luxor.
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it is what you do with what happens to you.
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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by JOJO » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:29 pm

DJKeefy wrote:@ JOJO - TAMALEK :lol: we did have a laugh that evening :) Glad you enjoyed most of your stay in Luxor :)
You still had Rich and I giggling about it on the way home :lol: It was lovely seeing you again xx
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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by TIM » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:14 pm

Glad you had a good time JoJo and it's interesting to compare your impressions with my own - my wife and I visited last October/November and got mixed impressions like you. One big difference though - when we there the temples were virtually empty much of the time.

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:37 pm

A-Four wrote:To me it seems that in the future, tourists will be discouraged from seeking a two week holiday in Luxor, and perhaps all tourist will visit the sites, then quickly bussed to their cruise boats, which seems to me as being the case now. Remember most of the tourists we use to see in Luxor a few years ago were staying on the boats, most of these now are moored near the bridge.

You are correct A-Four :up

I'm looking at making a visit in April sometime pureley by chance, and most of the holidays advertised are on cruise ships.

A-Four wrote:It really is nice to read JoJo's comments here, thanks.

Glad you enjoyed it JOJO, :up
My experience was similar, and it was good in many ways to see so many of the people of Luxor in and around the temples.
Many of them in Luxor temple came to me and asked to have their picture taken with me. :tk
I thought at first they must have mistaken me for Brad Pitt.. ( easy mistake, I know ) :cg
I think it was just an expression of freedom more than anything else.
So many smiling faces and a good vibe around the place.. :cool:
Having said that, and being totally selfish, there was no chance of any "quiet time" at Rameses 3 though.
Although I always find Seti I temple very quiet and get the place to myself for a few hours.. After paying off the couple of guardians and the police man at the entrance. :cg
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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by Bombay » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:22 am

It is sometime hard to notice that there are more women driving now in Luxor as most of the male drivers cannot park a car. :D

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by A-Four » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:22 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:
A-Four wrote:To me it seems that in the future, tourists will be discouraged from seeking a two week holiday in Luxor, and perhaps all tourist will visit the sites, then quickly bussed to their cruise boats, which seems to me as being the case now. Remember most of the tourists we use to see in Luxor a few years ago were staying on the boats, most of these now are moored near the bridge.

You are correct A-Four :up

I'm looking at making a visit in April sometime pureley by chance, and most of the holidays advertised are on cruise ships.

My dear BM I think you will find that I have been making this case on here now for the past two years, as for my friends in Luxor they know I have been saying this for over four years. The truth is that most of us on here remember and loved all the things that made Luxor what it WAS. When I have written on this subject in the past, I am ignored as though people bury their heads in the sand.
If I want a balloon ride in Luxor tomorrow it will cost me 300 LE no more, 20 years ago it was £150 STERLING. Those days will come back and soon, where everything goes through the 'Thomson' rep and all the 'balloon shops' will close. Why ? Simple, for the future tourist, Luxor will be seen as we have in the past seen Edfu, where even there tourist will, in the future see a sound and light show as part of their cruise, but how many of you, who actually have lived in Luxor for years, know Edfu town. Luxor will be that 'open-air museum' I have said in the past on here, where on each occasion people will be bussed in and bussed out to the boats near the bridge, and they will not be allowed into town independently, like, when YOU were on the cruise boat of the past, never allowed into Edfu town,......... believe me, open your eyes its already happening.
Last edited by A-Four on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by HEPZIBAH » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:30 pm

A-Four wrote:To me it seems that in the future, tourists will be discouraged from seeking a two week holiday in Luxor, and perhaps all tourist will visit the sites, then quickly bussed to their cruise boats, which seems to me as being the case now. Remember most of the tourists we use to see in Luxor a few years ago were staying on the boats, most of these now are moored near the bridge.


Luxor will be that 'open-air museum' I have said in the past on here, where on each occasion people will be bussed in and bussed out to the boats near the bridge, and they will not be allowed into town independently. Believe me, open your eyes its already happening.
A-Four, this is not a unique opinion and was expressed many times prior to your joining the forum. Perhaps not everyone has their heads buried as deep as you seem to think!
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by A-Four » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:46 pm

My dear Hep, I honestly believe this to be a very good thing for the future, yes the tourist will pay more, but a number of the them will be saved from the very crooked ways that now are present in Luxor. I honestly think that the 'little games' that were played out in the past were quite simple, in the old days, but now these people are quite ruthless, and I am sure the Government in Egypt of today, will soon put a stop to these 'ways of life',........we shall see.

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by HEPZIBAH » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:19 pm

A-Four wrote:My dear Hep,
:roll:

My name is Hepzibah, or Hepzi to my friends.
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by BENNU » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:50 pm

A-Four wrote:My dear BM I think you will find that I have been making this case on here now for the past two years, as for my friends in Luxor they know I have been saying this for over four years. The truth is that most of us on here remember and loved all the things that made Luxor what it WAS. When I have written on this subject in the past, I am ignored as though people bury their heads in the sand.
If I want a balloon ride in Luxor tomorrow it will cost me 300 LE no more, 20 years ago it was £150 STERLING. Those days will come back and soon, where everything goes through the 'Thomson' rep and all the 'balloon shops' will close. Why ? Simple, for the future tourist, Luxor will be seen as we have in the past seen Edfu, where even there tourist will, in the future see a sound and light show as part of their cruise, but how many of you, who actually have lived in Luxor for years, know Edfu town. Luxor will be that 'open-air museum' I have said in the past on here, where on each occasion people will be bussed in and bussed out to the boats near the bridge, and they will not be allowed into town independently, like, when YOU were on the cruise boat of the past, never allowed into Edfu town,......... believe me, open your eyes its already happening.
A-Four wrote:My dear Hep, I honestly believe this to be a very good thing for the future, yes the tourist will pay more, but a number of the them will be saved from the very crooked ways that now are present in Luxor. I honestly think that the 'little games' that were played out in the past were quite simple, in the old days, but now these people are quite ruthless, and I am sure the Government in Egypt of today, will soon put a stop to these 'ways of life',........we shall see.
Yes, dear A-Four, we shall see, and then, one more time, you can say: I told you so! :wi

One has to be blind not to have seen a development these years, and my Egyptian friends have said the same for the last four years, but I think that is all the more reason for us to enjoy it, while we still can! At the moment everyone I know is happy to be here, while we take the situation very seriously. I am not planning to go anywhere, but I am ready to leave anytime, if I am no longer welcome, and have never taken it for granted that I could have a home here and come and go as I please. I believe that I have mentioned that a few times, while I have been a member of this forum. I do not know, what sort of response you are expecting, A-Four. :wi

Why would we not know Edfu town? It is the only place in Egypt, where I have ever felt intimidated, I have seen a mentality there like in other places in the world, where tourists would come to see a sight and dissappear without leaving money directly to the locals. The reason I have not felt safe in these places was that I have been in the company of male backpackers who put us in situations in which I would never find myself on my own, but it was certainly not inviting, however appealing these towns, including Edfu, had seemed at first. Nobody knows more than you, my dear A-Four, but that does not mean that others cannot see. :wi

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by A-Four » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:31 pm

All you say above is so very true, but what I am trying to express here is that up until now, Luxor has been very, very lucky that the international tourists from all over the world have been able to come into direct contact with the locals, where at other sites in Egypt, and yes, as you say throughout the world, this is not so.

What I am a little afraid of now, is while Luxor is going through this period of change, will these people be able to accept that tourist will soon only arrive in groups, all with reps and guides, and therfore little chance of making any money. Quite a number of Egyptian men I know up to the age of say 30, have never really worked, but have made and spent an awful lot of money,.........I wonder what will happen to them, and will they become resentful towards the ex-pat community who remain.

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by Revolution » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:57 am

. Quite a number of Egyptian men I know up to the age of say 30, have never really worked, but have made and spent an awful lot of money,.........I wonder what will happen to them, and will they become resentful towards the ex-pat community who remain.[/quote]

Yes I think so very much. "its already happening" they might have to go and do a normal days work, for 30le a day.

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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by Bullet Magnet » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:26 am

..Of course, these changes and the "Disneyfication" of Luxor will take a lot of time, money and organisation.

While Egypt is being punished at this time, and changes are forced on her, the constant procrastinations and delays by those currently in power, who are manipulating Egypts future, it could take a long time for this change in Luxor to actually happen.
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Re: The return - how I found Luxor.

Post by Miriamkhalifa » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:59 am

I think these last posts are very interresting, and yes, I too have known or talked to a number of men who does not want normal jobs "because they steal our freedom" and so on.

I also have felt envied as a tourist, just hanging around, enjoying my time, visitig sites and so on. I tried to explain that the reason I could do this was I had been working my ass of in a grillbar in Norway, working mostly every weekend and night since my last visit, but noone seemed to take in this info, it was just "do you have your own car??"
I think that is a reason for envy and resentment, they never see us in our "normal" context and have very distorted (can one say that??) impressions about how life in europe or UK might be.
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