Monuments closed......sign of things to come?

Get the best advice about your holiday in Luxor.

Moderators: DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
jewel
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 8473
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:09 pm
Has thanked: 286 times
Been thanked: 167 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Monuments closed......sign of things to come?

Post by jewel » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:34 am

According to the Associated Press, “Egypt's antiquities authority closed the largest of the Giza pyramids Friday following rumors that groups would try to hold spiritual ceremonies on the site at 11:11 A.M. on Nov. 11, 2011…. The closure follows a string of unconfirmed reports in local media that unidentified groups would try to hold 'Jewish' or 'Masonic' rites on the site to take advantage of mysterious powers coming from the pyramid on the rare date.”

Considering that Jews are at the heart of all conspiracy theories in the Muslim world—including though the use of bewitched animals—this is not surprising: authorities have accused Jews and Israel of using rats, pigeons, vultures, pigs, squirrels, ad infinitum as subversive agents against Muslim nations.

After a string of shark attacks in Egypt last year, for instance, an official suggested Israel might be responsible for “throwing the deadly shark (in the sea) to hit tourism in Egypt.”

Not that it matters much now, since Dr. Muhammad Salim al-Awwa just declared on the air that “Egypt has left the international map of tourist destinations this month,” thanks no doubt to its increasing reputation as a land, not of pyramids and pharaohs, but jihadi violence and religious persecution.

http://www.light-dark.net/vb/showthread ... #post20135

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-closes-grea ... 26490.html


It's to be hoped that the egyptian antiquities wont go the same way as the Bamiyan buddhas! :(


I don't have a plan......so nothing can go wrong!

Image

TonyC
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: Luxor
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by TonyC » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:04 am

Keep shovelling the ****, dear! You must have scraped a few barrels to find that piece about the authorities preventing any New Agers clambering over the pyramid!

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4325
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2774 times
Been thanked: 5359 times
United Kingdom

Post by carrie » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:14 am

I understand that the pyramid was closed for the day because of an influx of "pyramid huggers" I dont recall any mention of them being masons or jews.

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4325
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2774 times
Been thanked: 5359 times
United Kingdom

Post by carrie » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:17 am

Just another thought is the "local" media that Jewel is refering to in the UK or here in Egypt? I watch the Arabic reports on TV and read the Arabic newspapers and I have yet to see any reports of this kind.

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:56 am

It was Egyptians who characterized it as Masons and Jews and it has been reported on for days now and being hotly discussed on many groups on Facebook. It was a major story and hard to miss. That said, I do not know of any Masonic or Jewish groups that were to come yesterday but there were quite a few tour groups of various New Age persuasions that were scheduled to go to the pyramids yesterday. In fact, there were so many that claimed to have exclusively booked the Great Pyramid that I strongly suspect that the chamber was double if not triple or more booked.

There have been many scandals and outrages concerning individuals and organizations with interests in or connections to the antiquities in Egypt that have been characterized as Zionist or Jewish or Israeli over the last several months. Some indeed are deserving of concern and contempt and even in some cases criminal prosecution, albeit in many (but not all) cases they are not Jewish. However, I would say that this story really is only the tip of the iceberg of what has been going on.

As for Salafis, MB et al, they really are not involved in this at all. For the most part, the people who are raising these concerns most loudly are quite liberal.

User avatar
LivinginLuxor
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 991
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:50 am
Location: Luxor, Egypt
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 546 times
Gender:
Egypt

Post by LivinginLuxor » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:14 pm

What purpose does Jewel serve in posting such absolute trash as this? I seriously question her motivations for the constant stream of anti-Egyptian, anti-Muslim posts. I for one would welcome her to come to Egypt so she can see the reality here, instead of relying on her Google Alerts to find as much negative comments as she manages to post.
I might agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong!
Stan

User avatar
jewel
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 8473
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:09 pm
Has thanked: 286 times
Been thanked: 167 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Post by jewel » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:35 pm

I do not need or wish to come to Egypt at this moment in time thank you, I know many people resident there Egyptian and non Egyptian, and I spent more time there over the years than even you probably......what is the saying "you sometimes are not able to see the wood for the trees", when you are caught up by small details you cannot see the bigger picture?
Like the ethics of absolute freedom.
To take an objective view you sometimes need to stand back....I used to explain it to students as "helicoptering" being able to look at things from a different perspective............. :)
I don't have a plan......so nothing can go wrong!

Image

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:43 am

While I think Jewel draws the wrong conclusions about the outcome or the motivation, the background facts she states are absolutely correct. I would actually characterize your reactions to the above post as more anti-Muslim and anti-Egyptian because if you think what she is saying is a smear on Egyptians when she is actually stating facts that Egyptians themselves would readily own up to then you are expressing disdain not for Jewel, but Egyptians.

I could actually expand a great deal from personal knowledge on the themes that Jewel talks about above and give more details. Would that make me anti-Egyptian or anti-Muslim? No, it's just stating facts.

User avatar
LivinginLuxor
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 991
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:50 am
Location: Luxor, Egypt
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 546 times
Gender:
Egypt

Post by LivinginLuxor » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:00 am

I agree that she has facts to hand - it's just the spin she puts on them that really gets up my nose!
I might agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong!
Stan

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:37 pm

Agreed. Although she is so over the top that really most of the time it almost seems as if she is a parody of herself.

User avatar
jewel
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 8473
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:09 pm
Has thanked: 286 times
Been thanked: 167 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Post by jewel » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:07 pm

Unless the"spin" put on it agrees with your own, then it is obvious it would get up your nose. :lol

Actually though when you think about it ,what with kidnapping and ransom of of a Jewish aid worker, gang-rape of a journalist, and massacres of peacefully protesting Christians, I believe the main ones "hitting tourism in Egypt" have been Muslim Egyptians themselves...
:roll:
I don't have a plan......so nothing can go wrong!

Image

TonyC
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: Luxor
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by TonyC » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:32 pm

jewel wrote:Actually though when you think about it ,what with kidnapping and ransom of of a Jewish aid worker, gang-rape of a journalist, and massacres of peacefully protesting Christians, I believe the main ones "hitting tourism in Egypt" have been Muslim Egyptians themselves...
:roll:
And from http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/11/consp ... ramid.html
Actually, what with kidnapping and ransom of of a Jewish aid worker, gang-rape of a journalist, and massacres of peacefully protesting Christians, I believe the main ones "hitting tourism in Egypt" have been Muslim Egyptians themselves...
Editing lessons needed ... she may have added "though when you think about it" but it appears that both writers use a double "of"!

User avatar
jewel
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 8473
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:09 pm
Has thanked: 286 times
Been thanked: 167 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Post by jewel » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:35 pm

That's correct tonyc fact is that it Is the truth, as anyone living in Egypt will find out in due course. It's sad but true that, according to Islamic laws, non-Muslims in Islamic lands are to be subdued and be treated as dhimmis (second class citizens).
Do you realise that, apart from all the Christian and bahai persecutions/abuses that are well documented, Egypt has the highest incidence of any Arab country of mistreatment of other non Muslims? Remember this?

http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=ht ... 2011-10-18

Which is fine so long a Muslims are barred from their sites like the Jerusalem mosque ( illegally built on site of Jewish temple anyway)

Remember Lara Logan who was gang-raped?
http://townhall.com/columnists/dianawes ... lted_logan

Many of the extreme Islamist groups responsible for kidnaps/ransom etc like al-jihad are thriving in the current climate in Egypt and I'm certain we will be hearing much more about them in coming days.
So yes, if complacency continues to prevail over this and other threats to egypts future tourism will be ****** and the only ones to blame are the Egyptian muslims themselves.
I don't have a plan......so nothing can go wrong!

Image

User avatar
LivinginLuxor
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 991
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:50 am
Location: Luxor, Egypt
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 546 times
Gender:
Egypt

Post by LivinginLuxor » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:01 am

A small fact:- Lara Logan was not gang-raped! http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/03/02 ... ara-logan/
I might agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong!
Stan

TonyC
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: Luxor
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by TonyC » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:04 am

jewel wrote:So yes, if complacency continues to prevail over this and other threats to egypts future tourism will be <del>*Word Censor*</del> and the only ones to blame are the Egyptian muslims themselves.
There's no complacency, but I don't buy your over-the-top brand of doom, gloom and hatred. I realise that only you can see the bigger picture from wherever it is you hover over the Middle East, and your heartfelt concern for those of us on the ground – and tourists – is indeed touching. What a pity so few take any notice!

User avatar
jewel
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 8473
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:09 pm
Has thanked: 286 times
Been thanked: 167 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Post by jewel » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:54 am

"A small fact?"! Really?!

It depends on what you mean by "rape" I suppose. It is actually possible to
place rape within a continuum of sexual violence that can take many different forms, including sexual harassment, verbal abuse, leering, threats, exposure, being forced to watch pornography, unwanted touching, incest, penetration, mutilation, and ritual abuse.

Rape is more about the abuse of power than about sexual attraction or the desire for sexual gratification.

Rape is when someone uses their power, manipulation or force to intimidate, humiliate, exploit, degrade or control another. Rape has been used as a weapon in war, in racial violence and in everyday life. Rape diminishes a person's dignity and their human rights to safety, choice and consent.

So, LIL to your thinking and indeed the rapists thinking, she was not raped, but I say she was, and it must have been an awful, terrifying, degrading experience regardless of what you think.....fact.
Rape always has an element of violence, and these men are culpable, whatever you say.

http://thefbomb.org/2011/03/what-is-rape-culture/


"If the occurrence of rape were audible, its decibel level equal to its frequency, it would overpower our days and nights, interrupt our meals, our bedtime stories, howl behind our love-making, an insistent jackhammer of distress. We would demand an end to it. And if we failed to locate its source, we would condemn the whole structure. We would refuse to live under such conditions." Patricia Weaver Francisco, Telling: A Memoir of Rape and Recovery
I don't have a plan......so nothing can go wrong!

Image

TonyC
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: Luxor
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by TonyC » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:13 am

jewel wrote:place rape within a continuum of sexual violence that can take many different forms, including sexual harassment, verbal abuse, leering, threats, exposure, being forced to watch pornography, unwanted touching, incest, penetration, mutilation, and ritual abuse.

Rape is more about the abuse of power than about sexual attraction or the desire for sexual gratification.

Rape is when someone uses their power, manipulation or force to intimidate, humiliate, exploit, degrade or control another. Rape has been used as a weapon in war, in racial violence and in everyday life. Rape diminishes a person's dignity and their human rights to safety, choice and consent.
While having no quarrel with the views, shouldn't that have been attributed to http://www.brissc.org.au/resources/for/for_1.html
We place rape within a continuum of sexual violence that can take many different forms, including sexual harassment, verbal abuse, leering, threats, exposure, being forced to watch pornography, unwanted touching, incest, penetration, mutilation, and ritual abuse.

Rape is more about the abuse of power than about sexual attraction or the desire for sexual gratification.

Rape is when someone uses their power, manipulation or force to intimidate, humiliate, exploit, degrade or control another. Rape has been used as a weapon in war, in racial violence and in everyday life. Rape diminishes a person's dignity and their human rights to safety, choice and consent.

User avatar
Kevininabydos
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:13 pm
Location: Kernow near England.
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 126 times
Gender:
Palestine

Post by Kevininabydos » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:40 am

I think I have just been raped by Jewels last post!
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”

Marcus Aurelius

User avatar
Arthur
Member
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:47 pm
Location: UK
Gender:
United Kingdom

Post by Arthur » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:55 am

Jewel are you using the Lara Logan incident to suggest that rape is more prevalent in muslim countries? I think your "helicopter" has just crashed...

UN rape statistics per country per million population in 2009

Muslim countries
Egypt = 1
Syria = 7
Turkey = 14
Morocco = 36
Bahrain = 46
Oman = 66


Western non-muslim countries
Denmark = 77
Germany = 89
France = 166
England + Wales = 241
US = 286
New Zealand = 309


The Lara Logan 'gang rape' was a specific incident at the height of the unrest where there were known agent provocateurs acting for 'papa's regime targeting foreign journalists. It was not reported to the police or investigated. As the CBS 60 minutes program where she gave her account said: "We may never know with certainty whether the regime was targeting a reporter or whether it was simply - and savagely - a criminal mob." http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18560_162-2 ... ontentBody

Morgita
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:23 pm
Location: South Wales
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Morgita » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:38 pm

Arthur, this is not an argument in which you can introduce raw statistics to support your contention. What are the chances of an Egyptian woman feeling she can face her rapist in open court and maintain the respect of her community or even her family? Even on this forum, otherwise intelligent and educated women contend that bad things do not happen to respectable women. Women do not report rape even in more liberal countries than Egypt.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • It's a Sign! It's a Sign in anyones language...
    by Who2 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:09 pm » in Myth, Magic and Spirituality
    1 Replies
    681 Views
    Last post by Bullet Magnet
    Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:29 am
  • Golf Sign
    by SteveMc » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:15 am » in Just 4 Fun
    3 Replies
    332 Views
    Last post by Chocolate Eclair
    Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:36 pm
  • Shell and Apache sign Egypt’s first fracking contract
    by Who2 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:26 am » in News and Sport
    0 Replies
    262 Views
    Last post by Who2
    Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:26 am
  • New Monuments Fees
    by Winged Isis » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:50 am » in History and Archaeology
    17 Replies
    678 Views
    Last post by Brian Yare
    Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:30 pm
  • Monuments under dire threat
    by Kevininabydos » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:49 am » in History and Archaeology
    29 Replies
    1976 Views
    Last post by Once bitten
    Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:21 pm